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| Home : Volume 31 : Winter 2005 : | |
| How long will it take until I can graduate? Here's what you need to know! | |
Associate Dean Patrick Farrell |
| For some parents of engineering students, it's a question with a moving target for an answer: Just how long will it take to get that degree? The answer varies and depends on many factors. The college's associate dean for academic affairs, Pat Farrell, discusses "time to degree" factors here. |
What does our current data show for undergraduate time to degree?
Dean Farrell: Our time-to-degree data as of last spring, excluding co-ops, is about 9.6 semesters. The average number of credits to degree across the college is about 144. Add in co-op and it’s two semesters longer because most co-op students spend at least two semesters working in industry. Degrees in the college vary in their credit requirements, from a low of 120 in a few departments to a high of 133 in one.
So, is it possible to earn an engineering degree in the standard four years?
Farrell: It is quite possible to earn an engineering degree in four years (eight semesters) with no AP (advanced placement) credits to start. It is a challenge, but it is quite possible. The courses are available, and departments in the college will work very hard to ensure students are not held up in their degree programs due to limitations on course availability or closed sections. You can do the math, but this would require a student take at least 15 credits per semester, and in some departments more like 17 per semester to complete their program in four years. Many of our students arrive with AP credits that they can use for degree requirements, and that would lessen the per-semester load to finish in four years.
Is the picture any different for out-of-state students?
Farrell: It's interesting that most of our out-of-state students finish much more quickly (at least a semester on average) than our in-state or Minnesota students. In general, these out-of-state students are not more qualified than our in-state students, but one conclusion might be that the high tuition cost is a strong incentive to take a full class load and graduate as quickly as possible. I do not know what the average time to degree for private engineering colleges might be, but I would suspect it is similar to what our out-of-state students' time to degree is, and I would guess it's driven by the tuition cost. I must say, though, that it is not clear to me that fast graduation will produce the best-educated student.
If it's possible to earn an engineering degree in four years, why aren't more students doing that?
Farrell: The main reasons, if I can generalize, are three: low credit loads, inapplicable transfer credits, and desire to explore new areas.
"Low credit loads" means that many of our students consider 12 or 13 credits a "full load" that allows them time to get good grades in their courses, look for and get help for their more difficult subjects, work part-time jobs, and have time to enjoy college life. At 12 or 13 credits per semester, it will take an extra semester or two to finish. Many engineering students justify this by saying that their courses are more difficult than the ones their friends in other majors take. I don't know if that is true, but it's a common perception among engineering students.
"Inapplicable transfer credits" means students earn legitimate college credits then transfer to the College of Engineering from another institution or from another part of campus. While the credits may all transfer, they may not all help get a student closer to a degree. For example, a student may have 24 credits in humanities and social science courses to transfer. In most engineering programs, 16 credits are required, and there is little room in most programs to use the other credits to satisfy any of the degree requirements. This can also be the case for some AP credits: Students may get the credits, but they may not fulfill degree program requirements so they do not help a student finish their degree more quickly.
"Desire to explore" means that some students want to take the opportunity, while they are here, to take a course in an area they will find interesting and enriching, but may not contribute to their program requirements. These may be technical courses, business courses, fine arts, history — the list is almost endless. Since one of our goals is to educate a whole person, as an engineer, it's hard for me to find fault with students wanting to expand their horizons.
Do you think the advantages of working during school, co-ops in industry, and having more time for harder courses could outweigh the goal of getting out in four years — at least for some students?
Farrell: Students come to the College of Engineering with a range of backgrounds and experiences. They all have the potential to succeed or they would not have been admitted. How that success is achieved will vary from one individual to another. Our goal is to help students become well-educated engineers who will be life-long learners, and who understand how their engineering can and will impact society. While I understand the concern about "time to degree," our focus is on "achievement to degree." Some students will need or want to take more time to really understand some of the material they need to learn. Our measure is whether the material has been learned well, not how quickly it was learned. For some students, taking more time, particularly in early fundamental courses, can pay off hugely in later courses as students carry a deeper understanding of previous material with them into more complex topics.
Many of our students arrive on campus unsure of what exactly engineers do and why they are asked to learn the many things we put in front of them. For these students, a co-op experience can be very valuable. We have many students who started out somewhat unsure of their long-term interest in engineering or its relevance to their career goals, but after participating in the co-op program and working as an engineer in industry these students are very excited about what they can do and how their courses will help them be better engineers when they graduate.
Do you have any advice for parents who are concerned about the amount of time it's taking for their son or daughter to get their engineering degree? What are some good questions to ask to start the conversation?
Farrell: I suggest for this kind of conversation, put financial considerations aside for the moment. When I talk to a student who appears to be making slow progress towards their degree, I want to try to find out why.
Some students know where they want to go (what degree they want to earn) and are proceeding at a pace they can manage. As an observer, I might think they could manage a more brisk pace, but I'm not the student. These students I don't worry too much about. They will get to where they want to go.
A second common reason I hear from students is the range of "life issues" that happen to young people. These issues can involve relationships, financial pressures, learning disabilities or issues, mental and physical health issues, and more. Ignoring these issues won't make them go away, but almost all of them can be dealt with by looking at the issues and getting help.
The third reason I often see for slow progress is a student's uncertainty about career path. For many, choice of college major sounds like it is a choice for life that sets one on a path for the next 50 years that cannot be altered. Some students arrive not too sure of what they want their path to be; many have been told what their path should be and are now questioning it; and most feel it is an enormous weight to choose, at age 19 or 20, what one's life will be like.
So … what might parents ask? Ask what your student's view of their future looks like. Where would they like to be or what would they like to be doing 10 years from now? If they're not sure, what would help them find out? Do they see their progress toward their degree helping them in that future (or not)? Are there things your student feels are impeding their progress? Can these be changed?
Let me finish with a final comment. Earning a degree from UW-Madison in engineering is a challenge — we know that. The best-prepared students from the best high schools still have to work at it. As I said before, we think every student we admit can do the work; almost all need some help at some time. One of the goals of a complete engineering education is to know how and when to ask for help, and to get enough practice at it that it is a natural thing to do.
It may be a financial burden to support a student for an extra semester (beyond four years), but if the alternative is a less well-prepared and educated student, or one who feels forced into a career choice that really doesn't fit, the extra time may be a good investment.
Content by perspective@engr.wisc.edu
Date last modified: Tuesday, 26-Apr-2005 17:06:42 CDT
Date created: 26-Apr-2005
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